Thanks for all the comments on the hand yesterday. I was really at a loss for the correct play - especially since it was a turbo sng.
One thing that I forgot to mention - the guy to my immediate right was pretty tight. He had given me walks almost every time. He folded every time someone shoved on his blind except the one time that he had AA. Does knowing that one of the remaining players is too passive for a turbo sng end game change your mind?
To recap, the hand went as follows:
$110+$9 turbo SNG
Blinds 200/400 (go to 250/500 in less than 1 minute)
5 handed - 2 ultra short
Seat 1: beanmo (515)
Seat 2: PokerToronto (115)
Seat 6: bballbilly77 (6,460)
Seat 7: cmitch (4,690)
Seat 8: wpm65 (1,720)
wpm65 posts the small blind of 200
beanmo posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cmitch [Qs Td]
PokerToronto calls 115, and is all in - obviously no choice for him
bballbilly77 folds - big stack
cmitch calls 400 - I call to hope to knock out both shorties
wpm65 raises to 1,720, and is all in - not sure why he didn't just call
beanmo calls 115, and is all in - obviously no choice for him
cmitch ?????
Several people commented that I should have pushed instead of limping. I disagree. If we knock out the two short stacks then we are itm. I thought that the button would also limp and we could get into a 4 way pot with a great chance to knock out both of the shorties. It looks like Hoy and Kaja (and probably Fred and Mike) were the only ones that felt the same way.
It is 1,320 to call. If I call and lose then I am sitting at 2,970. If I call and win, I am heads up about even in chips. If I fold, I am left with 4,290. If I call there is a very good chance both ultra-short stacks go out and we are itm.
I was really hoping someone would run the math for me. I tried to run 22+, AJ+ vs. Q10o vs. random vs. random and I think I broke pokerstove. I never could get it to work. It had run 14 billion scenarios and said that it was still 0% complete!!
So what did I do?
I was playing to win. I felt like his range was any pair and AJ+. I wouldn't mind getting in with Q10o against two random short stacks hands and 22-99 or any two non Queen face cards. Also, given the fact that the blinds were going up the next hand, there were two short stacks all-in, and I had a passive player to my immediate right I felt like calling was probably close to correct. If I win, I am in great shape to win the sng. If I lose, is having 3k chips really that different than having 4k chips when the blinds ae 250/500? It is pretty much push or fold time at that point anyway.
I ran into one of the hands in his range that I was worried about, but got very lucky.
cmitch calls 1,320
wpm65 shows [Ad Qd]
beanmo shows [3d 5c]
PokerToronto shows [Kc 8d]
cmitch shows [Qs Td]
*** FLOP *** [9s 9h 6s]
*** TURN *** [9s 9h 6s] [Th] - BOOM!!!
*** RIVER *** [9s 9h 6s Th] [9c]
wpm65 shows three of a kind, Nines
cmitch shows a full house, Nines full of Tens
cmitch wins side pot #2 (2,410) with a full house, Nines full of Tens
beanmo shows three of a kind, Nines
cmitch wins side pot #1 (1,200) with a full house, Nines full of Tens
PokerToronto shows three of a kind, Nines
cmitch wins the main pot (460) with a full house, Nines full of Tens
PokerToronto stands up
beanmo stands up
wpm65 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,070 Main pot 460. Side pot 1 1,200. Side pot 2 2,410. | Rake 0
Board: [9s 9h 6s Th 9c]
Seat 1: beanmo (big blind) showed [3d 5c] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 2: PokerToronto showed [Kc 8d] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 6: bballbilly77 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: cmitch (button) showed [Qs Td] and won (4,070) with a full house, Nines full of Tens
Seat 8: wpm65 (small blind) showed [Ad Qd] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
I think that the math would probably dictate a call, but am not 100% sure. I guess I felt like the possibility of being in position to win the sng heads up out weighed having 3k vs 4k chips with 250/500 blind levels.
I went on to win heads up a few hands later.
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BTW - go congratulate Hoy for his 3rd place finish in the FTP 50/50. Awesome job!!! Now is a great time for him to be getting back into his groove with the WSOP sats right around the corner.
Posts
For what it's worth, your pushing range for this hand was roughly:
{22+,Ax+,K5s+,KTo+,Q8s+,QTo+,J7s+,JTo T7s+,97s+,87s,76s}
I understand the desire for a standard poker player to try and play "poker" when playing a sit-n-go, but that's often an incorrect strategy.
SNGs are all about ICM and long run decisions.
Sorry if I'm sounding the a "math prick", but I'm only going on what I've read about sit-n-gos.
FWIW, I haven't posted solid results at SNGs since I tend to give up after playing 20 or 30 of them. I hate variance...
Klopzi
2:37 PM
Klopzi - that makes sense. Maybe pushing was the right move. I just felt like I could get the button to come along against the shorties for a better chance to bust them.
You aren't sounding like a "math prick". :) Your comments are great b/c that is the exact kind of advice I was looking for. I don't play many sngs - usually just as a break from cash games. I play them by "feel" and don't use any ICM programs while playing. This is probably not the best way to play against today's players, but I think that I have a fairly general idea of when to push, call, or fold. This hand fell out of my comfort range and it probably a case where an ICM program would have helped.
Thanks for the comments.
cmitch
2:56 PM
Yo Cmitch,
I didn't get a chance to answer first time around; but I also am in the camp of Pushing wih QT. Would AQd still call? Maybe; but maybe not with the above situation. As Klopzi said, in SNGSs, pushing your edges is what it is all about using ICM.
Obviously, the results turned out nice; but we can't look at it from that perspective.
Something hard for people to understand is that the 1st objective of a SNG player is NOT to win.. but merely make the money. That is the long term objective. Now, having said that, how you play the push/fold plays is what sets you up to make the money and eventually get the wins.
Anyway, nice hand and nice win!!!
WillWonka
5:45 PM